tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post1861472045557839329..comments2024-02-22T02:15:01.912-08:00Comments on The Narcissistic Continuum: The Emotionally Absent Mother by Jasmin Lee CoriCZBZhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-42496953080432481892012-08-13T14:00:57.157-07:002012-08-13T14:00:57.157-07:00"You can't count the number of times you ..."You can't count the number of times you tell your child that she is loved. YOU are not the determinate. The child is the judge." How right you are. The child is the judge of whether or not they were loved well-enough. A well-loved child feels it. Narc mothers always judge themselves and find themselves acquitted. The problem is always with their child's excessive needs and "expectations." UGH.Calibans Sisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817489284771105048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-26961700210865037502012-08-13T13:57:45.013-07:002012-08-13T13:57:45.013-07:00I like the way you screen these pieces before deci...I like the way you screen these pieces before deciding to post them, CZ. And yeah, TW, nothing gets by you! I think "healing" moves like tectonic plates. Incredibly slowly, with ruptures and lava flows and tsunamis along the way. It's a long long incremental process. And just when you think you've scarred over a wound, it pulls open again. Like you, I share TW's wariness about anyone trying to sell books that "help you heal," and doubly so when God is brought into the equation. But then there's Luke Ministries, and Ruth's "We Are One,"; and other great sites, so we really can't generalize. Since my mother is one of the poseurs who "publishes" "self-help books," I have a very gimlet-eyed view of the "traumatology industry." But Jasmin's list is a great one, and I also think you put it up here out of respect for our conversations of the last few weeks about less visible abuse, such as emotional abandonment. So thank you CZ. I always feel how responsive you are to those of us who weigh in here. Hugs to you. Calibans Sisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817489284771105048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-21118663488075420142012-08-13T11:07:11.487-07:002012-08-13T11:07:11.487-07:00I'm having a difficult time coming to grips wi...I'm having a difficult time coming to grips with the current idea that any suffering is too much suffering. That we don't need to tell our stories fifty times ten. That we can focus on more positive thoughts and change our emotional state, even our neural pathways. That people get stuck in ruts going over and over a traumatic loss and this means they are somehow 'pathological.'<br /><br />I have a hard time looking at grief as a pathological state of being. I am concerned that with our current predilection for narcissistic denial (and criticism of, and alienation from, those who ARE suffering), that we will shortcut an essential grieving process. <br /><br />BUT, I'm also concerned for people who get 'stuck' in well-worn ruts, ending up in total despair and hopelessness. They need help getting out and that means acceptance--not MORE criticism (or pathologizing).<br /><br />The reason why this is pertinent to a message about narcissistic mothers is because very often, the ability to grieve the narcissistic mother only occurs after a failed relationship as an adult. So what may appear to be a person who is suffering too long over a divorce, is a person who is grieving even deeper losses in his or her life. To be subjected to criticism from outsiders to WHOM WE ARE NOT OBLIGED TO EXPLAIN, is a valid concern. What appears to be a woman stuck-in-a-rut, just might be a woman who has fallen down a rabbit hole, ya know? <br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-8478264872767910632012-08-13T10:48:21.764-07:002012-08-13T10:48:21.764-07:00Dear Paulette,
How sad that you don't feel se...Dear Paulette,<br /><br />How sad that you don't feel seen, heard and beloved by your mother. What is there that hurts more deeply than the loss of a mother's love? Even having certain deficiencies hurts our children...like being married to a narcissistic man and constantly caught between the children's welfare and a selfish spouse's demands. The kids will have some resentment, I'll testify to that. (holding up my hand now)<br /><br />However, what struck me as profound about the list,(which Jasmin must have carefully composed), is that these behaviors would be hard to fake. If you compose a list of Ten Things the Good Mother Must Do, narcissistic mothers will check each one off the list as "accomplished" and rate herself from zero to ten (herself being eleven). <br /><br />But a list like this defies measure. You can't count the number of times you tell your child that she is loved. YOU are not the determinate. The child is the judge. Ask any adult if she feels safe resting in her mother's arms...there's the answer.<br /><br />The other great thing about Jasmin's list is that these ten things come naturally to most mothers. We don't have to know anything about attachment theories, the stages of child development, etc. although I wish I HAD known some of these things. I think her list sums up my thoughts about children being the 'apple of their mother's eye.' You either see your children that way or you don't and the kids sense the difference.<br /><br />Hugs to you,<br />CZ<br />CZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-27847339394777967512012-08-12T23:46:50.715-07:002012-08-12T23:46:50.715-07:00"I can not see any way to bring peace into ou..."I can not see any way to bring peace into our lives without embracing suffering." Yes. That's it. The harder we try to hide from it in any way, the more effort we exhaust spinning our wheels. No one wants to feel crappy, but sometimes, that's just how it is. There's a middle of the road between wallowing in it and waddling away from it as fast as my Yetti foot will take me.<br />I think that's one of the nice things about aging: You really know nothing lasts forever, neither the good, peaceful times or the hard, horrible times. After you've survived "war, famine and pestilence" what else could come down the pike that you couldn't possibly survive? There's something comforting about really knowing that reality.<br />TW Tundra Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12262066568878267648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-17338560370540809642012-08-12T06:36:42.951-07:002012-08-12T06:36:42.951-07:00All I can say is that I answered 'No' to a...All I can say is that I answered 'No' to all of the 10 Mother messages....just another proof that mine was, and always will be, emotionally absent. Thanks for posting as this validation is exactly what I need to hear! :-)MissPaulettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17690699918123277732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-51163937370218947842012-08-11T11:10:34.021-07:002012-08-11T11:10:34.021-07:00Well, you surely don't let anything get by you...Well, you surely don't let anything get by you, do you TW?!! Yea, I added the last excerpt so people would know Jasmin had a God-centered approach. <br /><br />I had an additional agenda when cherry-picking the quote on the bottom of my post. Jasmin Cori suggests that the healing path is strewn with negativity and pain and if our spiritual life NEGLECTS these aspects, it will not transform anything. <br /><br />This sums up my experience AND my frustration with people who want to skip the hard part and go for the ‘high’. That is not healing---that’s just more of the same ol’ same ol’ denial we grew up with. I cannot see any way to bring peace into our lives without embracing suffering. <br /><br />Soooo...I can see by your post, that you've also been watching the unfolding of quantum hubris. ha!<br /><br />What I really liked though was Jasmin's list of "Ten Good Mother Messages." We talk about the continuum of good-enough to pathological mothers but what IS a good mother anyway? I noticed that she wrote "You are special TO ME" instead of the narcissistic affirmation: "You are special." I thought that was MOST excellent and something that would benefit young children in our narcissistic society. <br /><br />Thanks for the validation on my attempts to respect and validate all people on the God Continuum: from atheists to fundamentalists. <3<br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-72427184231961030082012-08-10T14:39:57.975-07:002012-08-10T14:39:57.975-07:00Apparently Ms. Cori has a definite Religious POV a...Apparently Ms. Cori has a definite Religious POV as evidenced by the quote contained in the last two paragraphs. Which is fine, IMO.<br />However, I have a definite POV which separates the Sacred from the Secular, the Religious from the Spiritual. Perhaps "Continuum" is a better description than "Separate." ;) I am NOT saying one has more validity or usefulness than another. However, I'd look very critically at a publication and the Credentials of the author before I'd purchase or 'buy into' another "Self-Help" Book. The market IMO is saturated with self-promoting "experts" in a variety of fields including Traumatology. Where were these people in 1967/68 when all references to PTSD were removed from the DSM? Does it really matter? Yes and No; there IS significant history here as well as evolution regarding the huge explosion of "Survivor Groups." However, everyone is entitled to their view on the effects of less-than-great parenting which is about as polite as I can render the reality of growing up with Cluster B Parents. Respectfully, we need to look very critically at those who promote themselves as "healers." Remember "The Secret" and all the others? Yeah, CZ, that's what I'm saying.<br />There's "room" for all of our voices. And more importantly I appreciate your efforts to reach all of us regardless of our background. This "Inclusiveness" keeps me coming back. And thanks for the excerpt and more importantly, for the last 2 paragraphs. There is NO single path, no single "cure," no way to ensure those of us who lived this are not left to feel irrevocably "broken" without "Professional" or quasi-professional "Help" nor allow ourselves to feel somehow excluded.<br />And it this effort on your behalf that is an absolute shout out to you, CZ for your willingness to walk that fine line: IMO, you do this masterfully.<br />Thank you. <br />Tundra WomanTundra Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12262066568878267648noreply@blogger.com