tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post4927996950580193598..comments2024-02-22T02:15:01.912-08:00Comments on The Narcissistic Continuum: Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers by Chris ©2007CZBZhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-20995947651846830252015-06-10T17:33:11.760-07:002015-06-10T17:33:11.760-07:00Hi Kendrix! I see that you've commented on sev...Hi Kendrix! I see that you've commented on several of my articles today. Thank you! <br /><br />Triangulating the children against one another, is a favorite tactic and it can take years to understand and change. It's a learned behavior and each person plays a specific role in the drama. It's also common for narcissistic parents to pit the children against each other, everyone vying for "Dad's" attention and approval. Once you understand these dynamics, you can start to change. And the truth is that when one person in the family changes, everyone else shifts, too. <br /><br />I would encourage you to keep learning about dysfunctional families and also learn about "healthy families". That's so important too. How do healthy siblings engage with one another? Then you have a guideline and goal to work towards. It can take years and lots of earnest dedication to healing but i promise it will be worth it.<br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-84667880764596066932015-06-06T08:24:58.794-07:002015-06-06T08:24:58.794-07:00It is scary how every line of this seems to discri...It is scary how every line of this seems to discribe my father, down to incredibly specific things like the "downplayed" physical abuse, his bad gift giving & receiving, the selective memory & careless disregard of my propperty...<br /><br />The creepy thing is, midway through this text I went downstairs to get a drink, and witnessed another "downplayed abuse" moment - He complained that my mom hadn't done his paperwork. She said she was at the youngest sister's soccer competition. He complained that my brother was supposed to go, to which mom said that his hayfever had been spiking for days & that the last thing he needed was to spend a few hours in a meadow.<br />My father was not convinced/dismissive of that. He honestly didn't care... No one else in our family would refuse my brother a favor, he's very responsible, likeable & mature.<br /><br />Reading this has made me aware how much effort he put into driving me and my siblings apart. Thankfully, they're<br />I've heard from my mother than he planned on making me the favorite... the very knowledge makes me feel filthy & violated, like I was peeped on in the bath - I LOVE my siblings, I don't want to be used to hurt them.<br />That I rebelled led to much pain & mistreatment, I was abused worst of all, but in hindsight, I might have saved my bond with my brother & sisters by giving him the finger. It helps that for all her faults, our mom drew the line/ cracked down hard when he wanted to make us rat each other out.Kendrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03502596942918893445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-25639023085074000942013-02-13T14:10:37.905-08:002013-02-13T14:10:37.905-08:00Wow..amazing...it is like you were there! I was t...Wow..amazing...it is like you were there! I was the 'scapegoat' to my younger brother whom she raised as a 'little monster' and who hated me because in almost all respects the 'genetic lottery' was much kinder to me than him...he and his mother were very malicious to me. Later in life he would blame her for destroying his marriages and for his general failure as an adult. He died young from a combination of illegal drugs and alcohol... and like his mother blaming others for his failures. What 'saved' me was to financially and physically separate from the family at about 19-20. I went out on my own and succeeded because of personal sacrifice (in college I didn't have enough $$ to ask a girl out for a milkshake)and a constant fight for employment. I was the first in my family to graduate from college...she told me it was nothing to be proud of and that I should feel stupid for doing it. I could go on and on...but while we were defenseless children I feel the REAL crime was our father who allowed it to happen. I am still very damaged by her, fighting at times paralyzing depression, but at least I am aware of my roots and have gained respect in my profession. However I never married as I am afraid of closeness to women and fear their abusiveness and rejection. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-45671965876554330802012-12-31T20:02:47.141-08:002012-12-31T20:02:47.141-08:00I also applaud you for protecting your children. ...I also applaud you for protecting your children. I have a sister whose children are now at risk of their grandmother/NM. She started to inject her poison very early on and now it is almost out of control. We (four sisters) were not aware of this disorder though we had suffered for many years from the traits of the NM. But now at last putting a name to it, recognizing it and hopefully squashing it to protect the dear children is our goal. We have suffered from a total lack of sisterly affection fueled by a NM. I have a lot of hope that we can climb out of the abyss and thrive and grow again. Thank you for your most brave and comforting post......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-30158263949256871962012-11-05T18:58:03.108-08:002012-11-05T18:58:03.108-08:00Hello Anonymous!
Thanks for stopping by and readi...Hello Anonymous!<br /><br />Thanks for stopping by and reading about narcissism. People are beginning to talk about their narcissistic mothers so you'll be able to find plenty of resources on the web. There's quite a number of blogs about narcissistic mothers, too.<br /><br />I'm sorry to hear that you didn't have a loving relationship with your mother. That's always so sad...and hard to hear. <br /><br />I read a book last week about an adopted daughter whose mother was beyond narcissistic--she sounded crazy. It's called "Why be happy when you could be normal?" by Jeannette Winterson. <br /><br />Thanks for stopping by!<br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-44275413057304716602012-11-02T19:44:18.235-07:002012-11-02T19:44:18.235-07:00Wow...as I read this article I was mentally checki...Wow...as I read this article I was mentally checking off and going "Yup, she did that. Yes, that too. OMG I didn't even realize, but yeah that was her"(the not wearing makeup thing, the giving me her old stuff that didn't fit me and getting upset when I wasn't thrilled about it) My mother died 2 years ago, and its only recently that I have discovered that she was a narcissist. I was raised that everything she did or said to me that was cruel and mean was justified because of something I did. <br /><br />My own situation was a little different though. I was not her biological child (which I did not know, but suspected when I was young). Her biological daughters were married and gone and her marriage was on the rocks (they divorced shortly afterwards). I'm guessing I was supposed to fill a void. When I did find out about my birth, she made sure that I knew that I hadn't been wanted by my birth mother (after years of making sure I realized that my "dad"-her first husband-didn't want me either). I ended up marrying the first man who paid attention to me because I knew I would be lucky to find anyone who would want someone as defective as me.<br /><br />Whenever I tried to talk to someone, I was always told I must be confused, because that wonderful, sweet woman would NEVER do or say the things I said. And it was the era of "If you aren't being hit, you aren't being abused". <br /><br />Thank you for posting and for your blog. It does help a little bit to realize I'm not alone and I haven't been crazy or overly sensitive all these years. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-30456356714680988322012-07-27T12:54:57.967-07:002012-07-27T12:54:57.967-07:00Hi anonymous!
I will work on a new entry and post...Hi anonymous!<br /><br />I will work on a new entry and post it next week. You've asked a great question with a complicated answer. <br /><br />I won't pretend to be an expert. By learning about narcissism (from benign to malignant), maintaining relationships has been much easier. We can learn what triggers narcissistic mothers AND what triggers ourselves and work on relationship from there. It will never be what we might have hoped it could be---but sometimes toleration is 'good enough'. <br /><br />My family is not centered around a malignant narcissist. Changing myself (for the better, I must admit!) has made all the difference in our ability to get along and enjoy one another's company in Mom's older age. As I've changed, so has my mother. As you've probably witnessed by people's comments, this is NOT always the case. <br /><br />I appreciate your comment and will start putting together a list of things we can do. Keeping a bond between my daughter and her grandmothers has been a priority for me. I am a f-a-m-i-l-y oriented woman placing high value on connections and community. <br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-70123148700368730162012-07-26T23:26:12.635-07:002012-07-26T23:26:12.635-07:00My sister just sent this to me. This fits our Mot...My sister just sent this to me. This fits our Mother to the T!! I unfortunately am the scapegoat in the relationship. Do you have any suggestions for us as sisters moving forward with this info. We both have children and do not want to repeat this cycle that we think started with her Mother. Any suggestions appreciated. I feel a big weight off my shoulders now! Thank you thank you thank you!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-87636104868467178582012-07-07T13:19:09.985-07:002012-07-07T13:19:09.985-07:00I added your url to my bloglist, Anon!
Now I'...I added your url to my bloglist, Anon!<br /><br />Now I'll come visit your site, thanks! <br /><br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-33579558413538010322012-07-06T06:27:06.437-07:002012-07-06T06:27:06.437-07:00CZ--I'd like you to check ou my new blogspot, ...CZ--I'd like you to check ou my new blogspot, Raising Caliban.<br />I'm hoping to use it as a place to collate what I've learned from all of you <br />and apply it to crazy-making things NP have done to me. My nom de guerre is Caliban's Sister.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-15799882300417114792012-07-05T13:11:20.291-07:002012-07-05T13:11:20.291-07:00I understand. The problem is when the writers are ...I understand. The problem is when the writers are hypocrites. My mother has disowned me for pointing out her predations on my professional and personal boundaries; I made not triangulating with my sisters a condition of a relationship with me, and asked her to communicate with me directly when we had issues. She promised she would never drag my sisters in again, and then, after I let her know I was aware of her uncredited use of my words and ideas, she broke her promise and dragged them in, even after I specifically told her not to. Her reason? "They are part of my support network." Forget the fact that I wanted to SPARE them the stress and presumably her the shame; but she is shameless. When I pointed out that not triangulating was the ONLY condition I'd put on having a relationship with her, she said "I wish I'd had the strength not to break my promise, but I can't promise that I won't do it in the future." How's that for CRAZY word salad? Hypocracy is the problem. I have no problem with self-publishing when the authors are being honest about their lives. Truth in advertising is a completely alien concept to my mother, who is an extraordinary piece of narcissistic work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-1408404302819160932012-07-05T12:57:49.192-07:002012-07-05T12:57:49.192-07:00Great, CZ. I'm tired of seeing my own NM, and...Great, CZ. I'm tired of seeing my own NM, and others like her, appropriating and misusing the term "Good Enough Mother." They dishonor the pioneers of the concept, like Melanie Klein, John Bowlby, and DW Winnicott, whose work developed the idea in great depth and detail, with complex subtlety. Any child who had a "good enough mother" has no beef with that person, and is by definition well-adjusted. Narcissistic mothers don't get to claim they were "good enough": it is the judgment of the child whether or not they were.<br />That seems to be something that all narcissistic mothers forget. You don't get to tell yourself you were a 'good enough mother' in the face of your child's protestations to the contrary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-2903189649262618032012-07-05T09:45:48.265-07:002012-07-05T09:45:48.265-07:00I need to clarify my comment because I believe it ...I need to clarify my comment because I believe it is VERY important, even crucial, for people to write about their lives. Narratives about narcissistic relationships are likely even MORE healing and useful than a dissertations on the 301.81: Axis II, NPD, in the DSM-IV-TR.<br /><br />ha...I think that last sentence made my point! <br /><br />However, I'm not complaining about self-published memoirs or testimonials OR even a collection of personal stories, thoughts and experiences. What I'm talking about is self-appointed gurus who "undermine" trained professionals and promote their products as "equal to-or-superior to" trained professional therapists. <br /><br />They get away with this because psychotherapy frightens a lot of people (especially narcissists). AND because psychological literature on NPD is complicated. It sounds like a bunch of gobbledy-gook. AND also, psychology is mocked as a pseudo-science. That's just a few reasons why these folks get away with selling their products.<br /><br />I'd say one of the biggest reasons why they are so profitable is because these people are so confident. AND, they know how to manipulate people and they see nothing wrong with taking advantage of vulnerable people. There's no moral restraint, in other words BECAUSE they believe their own schtick. <br /><br />I have gone off a little bit...lol...but this has been building for awhile. Even since The Secret and teh Law of Attraction opened the door on unbridled self-delusion and greed. <br /><br />Anyway.............LOLOL.......thanks for commenting on the "unregulated" self-help publishing market.<br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-7200718306370454542012-07-05T09:31:35.277-07:002012-07-05T09:31:35.277-07:00Just doing a hatchet job on her mother, eh? Well, ...Just doing a hatchet job on her mother, eh? Well, that's a narcissist for ya. Minimize, discount, and discredit the daughter's story and protect the mother-myth. Sounds like your mother shamed Cristina the same way she shame-dumped on you. <br /><br />I remember public reactions when Mommy Dearest first hit the talk shows. The criticism wasn't an insiniation---it was downright blatant and yes, shaming. All the finger-pointing and outrage reinforced daughter's fears of speaking up. If Cristina Crawford could be the object of public humiliation, imagine what would happen to the average person? Overtly blaming public reactions silenced a lot of people. However, (this is my belief) the door had been opened. It was only a matter of time before talking about narcissistic mothers would be allowed, maybe even encouraged. <br /><br />You wrote: "In her mind, if you weren't beaten or left to starve, you have no right to have any gripes against your mother."<br /><br />ha! I've used that argument, too! ha...but only to put things into context and encourage a child to take a broader view of his situation. Once again, context is imperative! I have never told my nephew that he had NO RIGHT to gripe about his mother---but I have told him stories about suffering children in Africa. (LOL)<br /><br />It's amazing the dumb thing you come up with when a child feels like his/her life is the WORST experience a child could ever have and you know but you don't want to tell him, that he's had a damn good life in the overall history of child rearing. <br /><br />I think what you're saying deserves a separate post because in essence, the Good Enough mother VALIDATES her child. This is what's missing with narcissistic mothers who "invalidate" the child's feelings, thoughts, yea very existence. <br /><br />I may post some of your comment on a blog entry. I hope you're comfortable with me doing that. If this imperils your anonymity, please let me know and I'll edit my post! <br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-62132024396298207052012-07-04T14:22:18.415-07:002012-07-04T14:22:18.415-07:00I hear you CZ. It's me, Anonymous again, whose...I hear you CZ. It's me, Anonymous again, whose mother self-publishes trite and banal self-help books as a way to trick herself into thinking she's an expert on something. These exercises do nothing but bolster a false self that is brittle and hollow to the core. So you are right to be leary of the cottage industry of self-publishing. There is no quality control out there. HOWEVER, everyone who has kept up with your blog knows that you are the real thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-230217075898977762012-07-04T14:17:52.553-07:002012-07-04T14:17:52.553-07:00My mother, in one of her phony expert self-help bl...My mother, in one of her phony expert self-help blogs, writes in defense of Joan Crawford, and implying that Cristina Crawford was just doing a hatchet job on her mother. This is the woman who plagiarized from her own daughter, took things she said in conversation and passed them off in a self-published book as her own ideas, who blogs about the importance of intergenerational legacy and "forgiveness" but has disowned her first born daughter. Just like Crawford did, my own mother began to project and shame dump on me as I entered adolescence; her jealousy at my growing intelligence was always evident, and responded to with contempt and dismissal. It's pathetic to see a grown woman pretending to be a self-help expert when she is such a fraud. In her mind, if you weren't beaten or left to starve, you have no right to have any gripes against your mother. There are only two kinds of mothers as far as she is concerned: monsters who beat you (abusive), and the rest, who should be "good enough." She is parroting the usual narcissist's mantra to "get over it" already. She's a classic example of what happens when mediocre intelligence reads up on popular self-help, and uses it to reframe her behavior. Ugh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-72455280929418554702012-06-29T13:05:12.231-07:002012-06-29T13:05:12.231-07:00I have read a few articles suggesting anyone with ...I have read a few articles suggesting anyone with a Cluster B diagnosis, is also psychopathic (to some degree, depends on the rigidity of the PD). <br /><br />Psychopathy would account for the varying descriptions of personality disorders. While some might describe a mother with NPD as self-centered, others will describe her as callous, manipulative, sadistic, and parasitic. Perhaps the co-morbidity of the psychopathic character allows for this extreme? <br /><br />I'll be researching this further, to be sure. After writing to people for ten years now, there's a huge difference between those who grew up with an immature & selfish mother, and those who grew up with a malicious narcissist! To criticize people for separating themselves from her intractably perpetual abuse, is secondary victimization. <br /><br />Most people fail to understand that mothers are capable of hating their own children. We suspect it, but we don't want to know it.<br /><br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-91074273269208836192012-06-29T12:53:33.576-07:002012-06-29T12:53:33.576-07:00Great recommend, anonymous! As you can read in my ...Great recommend, anonymous! As you can read in my post below, I'll be reading McBride's book this weekend. <br /><br />Thanks!<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-82974647862711195042012-06-29T12:07:01.899-07:002012-06-29T12:07:01.899-07:00And you really know your stuff, too, TW! Thanks fo...And you really know your stuff, too, TW! Thanks for the validation. <br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-88856936721386685572012-06-29T12:02:37.268-07:002012-06-29T12:02:37.268-07:00Dear Lady Nyo,
Thank you!
I have not given just...Dear Lady Nyo,<br /><br />Thank you! <br /><br />I have not given just 'due' to McBride's book so maybe its time to read it carefully. Perhaps she is reaching a broader audience than focusing on the Malignant Mother?? <br /><br />That's the complication of narcissism. It ranges from normal to malignant with destructive-to-annoying behaviors in-between. To cover all the bases, therapists' descriptions of narcissistic mothers might be watered down. Some mothers get better with age. There may be a chance to create a better relationship with her and psychologists need to address this possibility. <br /><br />I also think psychologists, therapists, and counselors need to take a more objective stance, remaining non-judgmental to some degree.<br /><br />The beauty of not having credentials though, ha!, is that we can spout our opinions (hopefully, INFORMED opinions. We can make judgments and express our views and report our experience. We can write essays without fear of losing our license (though we may lose credibility, ha!). <br /><br />When you're writing to an audience like the readers on my blog, they'll catch you in five minutes flat if you don't know your stuff. They learned the hard way and those lessons stick hard and go deep. <br /><br />We can spot fakers in the first three essays, maybe sooner.<br /><br />I appreciate your validation very much...because I know you know your stuff, too!<br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZ <br /><br />p.s. I may pull a book together at some point as another voice on narcissism. However, I absolutely detest the cottage-industries springing up on the net, claiming to be experts (even more knowledgeable than trained professionals!!) and asking high prices for their worthless (specious at best) products. It's narcissism pretending to be something its not: altruism. I don't want to be any part of that community!CZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-64793949475027417002012-06-29T09:46:41.291-07:002012-06-29T09:46:41.291-07:00^ AMEN, Ladynyo!
TW^ AMEN, Ladynyo!<br />TWTundra Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12262066568878267648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-1309864048213477702012-06-29T09:34:25.650-07:002012-06-29T09:34:25.650-07:00Read that book very recently, and felt it soft-sho...Read that book very recently, and felt it soft-shoed a lot of issues with narcissists. The maternal narcissist is the black widow of the bunch, and does evoke fear and dread in her children.<br /><br />I believe there are better books out there than McBride's, and would cite this blog....CZ's....as a leader in this field. <br /><br />I keep telling her to write a book. Or even collect the blog entries. <br /><br />CZ has a very deep understanding of these things, and I find her better than most therapists...<br /><br />Lady NyoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-41959200679913010532012-06-28T07:19:56.053-07:002012-06-28T07:19:56.053-07:00Yes, actually, had a tantrum driving the car later...Yes, actually, had a tantrum driving the car later that week and drove like a madwoman. She was forced to apologise again by my Grandparents.<br /><br />Ex wife was defensive of our son, very confrontational. I sat back. Now my partner and family use distractive tactics to keep her busy away from our daughter. Works most of the time. <br /><br />She's quite old so her tactics are extracting sympathy, but gets frustrated and the temper shows.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11969754189605721233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-57078494148414283152012-06-28T00:46:48.874-07:002012-06-28T00:46:48.874-07:00BOOK TO RECOMMEND: 'WILL I EVER BE ENOUGH?, H...BOOK TO RECOMMEND: 'WILL I EVER BE ENOUGH?, HEALING THE DAUGHTERS OF NARCISSISTIC MOTHERS' BY MCBRIDE!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6801485432556979796.post-59151662683945209542012-06-27T13:38:06.952-07:002012-06-27T13:38:06.952-07:00No, she was STONE COLD SOBER. Yep, her dx. is &quo...No, she was STONE COLD SOBER. Yep, her dx. is "MNPsychobitch, The Walking Cluster B." I have enough letters behind my name to allow for an "informal" but quite accurate dx.<br />I scare the average "Attorney" to death as well as their clients. OJT+lots of education does that to a person!<br />TWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com