December 09, 2011

Feel like Spilling your Guts to the Narcissist?



Are you reading self-help books telling you to spill your guts and Save Your Relationship? If so: the Royal Narcissist does a happy dance because YOU'RE finally admitting you're a mess! 

<-----------Please note: King Baby's royal finger is pointing at YOU! 

Keep your self-examination PRIVATE. Do not tell your spouse. Do not send him or her a letter of apology, listing your many flaws and faults. Many of us make that mistake before learning about pathological narcissism. There is a huge distinction between normal narcissism and pathological and one of the differences is introspection. When people who naturally introspect realize they have contributed to problems in the relationship, they take responsibility for themselves and alter their behavior. 

In a normal relationship, both people recognize their 'shadow side': the things we do unconsciously that disturb us and confuse a partner. We see it and we change it and we grow as a result. We assume our relationship with a narcissist works the same way--that once we admit we were selfish or self-centered, they will do likewise. 

Have you noticed how healing an argument can be when both people take a hard look at themselves, admit their flaws, and apologize? When people apologize, I've noticed that other people are quick to forgive because they also realize that despite their best efforts to love someone, they ALSO make mistakes. With the narcissist however, admitting your flaws LETS THEM OFF THE HOOK. What happens afterwards is that during another altercation, the narcissist USES every intimacy you revealed about yourself to justify WHY they did what they did. You feel like a failure and the narcissist is off the hook....AGAIN. As long as we admit to having contributed to 'the problem', the narcissist will AVOID (deny) his or her responsibility! 

This is counter-intuitive for people who are NOT narcissists. So we apologize again, hoping the narcissist will mirror our behavior by doing likewise and they DO NOT. In fact, they will build on your humble admission of fault as a character trait. For example: everyone does things that are 'selfish' (insert whatever 'trait' you want here). You say, "I am so sorry for only thinking of myself!" and you expect this admission to trigger a similar response from your partner. Instead, each time you are taking responsibility for your behavior, the narcissist accuses you of being selfish. He or she doesn't say, "I feel neglected when you do such-and-such". No. Why not? Because "I feel neglected" is self-revelatory. Instead, the narcissist says, "You are a Selfish person. Even YOU admit it."

Most people who have written about their break-up with a narcissist, have learned to introspect and take responsibility for their part in the fiasco. Most people also learn over time, that the narcissist will use any excuse, ANY EXCUSE AT ALL, to avoid taking responsibility. Your short list of defects, mistakes, flaws, and weaknesses become the reason WHY the narcissist acted the way they did.

It may appear to others that we're pointing accusatory fingers at narcissists without examining ourselves. This is simply NOT true. We have learned, even if we aren't conscious of it, that our admission of personal weakness will be used against us.

In a normal relationship, people are LOATH to bring up any intimacy someone has revealed about themselves. They respect the person's willingness to be honest about their problems. They empathize with how it feels when your weaknesses are used like weapons of humiliation. There's an invisible line that we do not cross, even if we are angry and defensive. We do not use someone's painful revelations against them.

Most people have been taking responsibility throughout the relationship, catching themselves in the act and apologizing. They didn't realize the narcissist was gathering ammunition instead of examining him or herself. The narcissist may cry or weep or appear to be suffering when you apologize but sad to say, it's not real. You'll know that the next time you've done something really swell and the narcissist says, "You may have excelled at that project, sweetie, but that's because you are so incredibly SELFISH. Even YOU said so!"

During my divorce, I read a recommended book titled "Spiritual Divorce" and dutifully listed my mistakes, flaws, ignroance, blah-blah-blah and tried to have a 'closure' conversation with my spouse. I did not know about narcissism at the time. Do Not Do This if you believe your partner is narcissistic. It releases them from whatever introspection they are capable of and increases your VULNERABILITY. It's humiliating when your tender admissions, offered in 'good faith', used against you. Or shared with the narcissist's new rescuer.

You must be cautious when sorting through self-help books that are NOT recommended for pathological relationships. YOU, the non-N, may end up being humiliated, degraded, and your most spiritual aspects of yourself brutalized. If you want (or feel a need) to self-deprecate, please post to a support group that allows you to express your feelings whatever they may be. For some reason, most people WANT to admit the things they did 'wrong'. We need to purge and confess to being flawed. That's the good and the bad about having a conscience.

Remember: Pointing fingers at narcissists is difficult for Non-Ns. We want to be fair. We want to be honest. For every finger pointed at the N, we have three pointed back towards ourselves. So in order to feel good about ourselves, we can admit to having flaws, shadows and defects, too. But we CANNOT, SHOULD NOT, DO NOT need to admit this to the narcissist. It's not good for YOU and it's definitely NOT good for the narcissist.

When narcissists feel threatened, they cannot stop themselves from using whatever ammunition they have to defend themselves. Some narcissists regret their behavior afterwards but not nearly as much as we regret having trusted them. 

Hugs,
CZ




16 comments:

  1. Wise words, my friend. Very wise words.

    I noticed it at work the other day -- someone who has taken over one of my areas of purview as I'm leaving definitely has N traits (and you wondered why I was leaving?) anyway, I mentioned something that was overlooked in what they had advised a staff to do and their response was... (even though they have taken ownership of this area) I left it to XXX to do that and thought as it was sent out every year it would be just fine. (even though they had signed off on it prior to it going out) -- now, reality is, for an N -- there is no such thing as, the buck stops here. Because... no matter what happens, It's Never My Fault -- it's always SOMEONE ELSE's fault. Always.

    Hugs :)

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  2. Sorry Louise! I had no idea you had stress of any kind in your life. :P At least you knew enough about “Ns” to get yourself out of the line of fire.

    The problem, as you well know, is that most people do not realize they are dealing with "a narcissist" until they are being thrown under the bus, pushed down the elevator shaft, betrayed and humiliated, demoted to promote the N.

    If you can spot narcissistic traits, you can better protect yourself, which might mean changing jobs. That's a sad thing to say but sometimes it's best to walk away. Untangling yourself from their constant undermining and projected blame is time-consuming and exhausting. Who wants to be 'on the alert' all the time?

    At least you realized it was time to move on and you had the courage to do it.


    Love,
    CZ

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  3. I agree..just the very fact of having to be around a narcissist all the time, to walk on eggshells...well, it's exhausting.

    When we are able to identify the behaviors of narcissists, we have a choice: it's not always a good choice in the immediate sense, perhaps it puts us in a financial bind, but the abuse of narcissists is soul-killing.

    They are vampires.

    I had a boss, a woman, who demanded that I give her neck rubs....no, I am not a massage therapist, I was an office worker....and she was so into power, to deny her was to feel her revenge...she was one who, looking back on, was a terrible narcissist, and I QUIT. But it took 5 years of continuing and mounting abuse before I got wise.

    CZ, you always have the ability to say something new and contemplative on Narcissism. You need to write a book!!!

    Lady Nyo

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  4. Dear Ladynyo,

    Thank you for your kindness...both you and Louise are amazing and sensitive writers so I feel very touched that you appreciate my 'work'.

    Who knows, maybe a book is in the works one day. Maybe I need another narcissist in my life to keep me focused on writing. ha!

    My potters wheel and kiln have been calling my name lately. I need to dig my hands in a bag of clay and do something completely unrelated to abuse, narcissism, psychopathy, continuums and syndromes.

    As a sidenote, it's interesting that both you and Louise are artists. I have so enjoyed seeing your beautiful artwork!

    One day (promise) I'll post pictures of my pottery.


    Hugs,
    CZ

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  5. Would LOVE to see your pix of pottery!

    No, you don't need another narcissist in your life to keep you focused for a book.

    you need distance from any narcissist!

    Life is so much better without them. We are only diminished when we indulge them.

    Hugs,

    Lady Nyo

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  6. OMG! I grew up with a MNmother and I wanna tell you, please take these "Self-Help" (self-promotion, basically) publications and donate them-somewhere.
    Self-disclosure to a Narc?! You might better take a sharp knife and slit your throat now because I can assure you a narc will be doin' the same to you metaphorically if not immediately some where down the road. Those little "tid-bits" of yourself will be a blood-spattered mess on the floor (right along with every bit of self-esteem, self-respect and dignity you may have once possessed) and the narc will ORDER YOU to "Clean up YOUR mess-NOW!"
    I learned as a Little One at MN's knee (as it conveniently found it's way to connect to any part of my conveniently located little body) to not EVER disclose who you are, what you REALLY think, feel etc. A recipe for yet MORE narc abuse.

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  7. Sigh....I think I am beginning to understand this stuff...about revealing any sort of humaness we have to surrounding narcissists.

    It's even dangerous in a way to write about narcissism...to tell an unknown public what you think about these things, and what you are doing for a solution and abatement to the abuse and pain.

    Tonight I got this comment about a post I wrote a while ago.."The Peace that Surpasses All Understanding"...about going No Contact with my mother.

    This 'man' took me to task: saying that I had made no attempt to 'understand' the narcissist, and other vile things, and that my solution revealed that I was the narcissist.

    I think the vast majority of us who have had a life time of abuse and 'attention' from narcissists understand them very, very well. In fact, we have walked through the fire to get out of the flames....

    The only abatement to all of this suffering is NOT to try to sympathize with the narcissist's history, but to run like Hell.

    Regardless of the appeal, the wiring is all wrong, and they don't hear you. They never could, but it's not our duty to yell louder.

    When we come to a place where we have a certain understanding of these issues, we are bound to act upon them, not just stroke them and mark time.

    Life is a beautiful thing, and too short. Narcissists are vampires afterall. And vampires shorten everything good in life, and life itself.

    Lady Nyo

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  8. "I learned as a Little One at MN's knee (as it conveniently found it's way to connect to any part of my conveniently located little body) to not EVER disclose who you are, what you REALLY think, feel etc. A recipe for yet MORE narc abuse."


    Isn't it sad that a child learns to distrust his or her parents? They only figure it out after having been hurt many times--enough times to give up on being seen, valued and loved exactly as they are.

    I hope, really hope, that our efforts to write about narcissism as openly and candidly as we do on blogs and websites, will make a difference for our kids and theirs and theirs, too.

    As you experienced, anon, you can't even imagine that someone would be so heartless as to use your tender intimacies against you! Our natural reaction is to "open up more" when the relationship goes awry. In the case of the narcissistic relationship though, we're only setting ourselves up for more pain and suffering.

    As research is proving with narcissists: vulnerability increases their aggression. Isn't that a mind-bender?


    Hugs,
    CZ

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  9. Yep, that hit me too....

    "I learned as a Little One at MN's knee (as it conveniently found it's way to connect to any part of my conveniently located little body) to not EVER disclose who you are, what you REALLY think, feel etc. A recipe for yet MORE narc abuse."

    It is normal and natural for a child to open up to their parents...not knowing the danger and the vulnerability they place themselves in.

    How sorrowful it is when those that should love and protect us don't and won't.

    And as to their aggression increasing when presented with a vulnerable person: this is just evil. It is nothing of the goodness of humanity. To me, it's just evil. No horns or pitchfork need apply.

    Lady Nyo

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  10. Dear Lady Nyo,

    You may be interested in this post: http://n-continuum.blogspot.com/2008/10/characterological-predispositions.html

    "Contrary to what most of us experience in the presence of human suffering, current research on pathological narcissism suggests malignant aggression increases in the presence of vulnerability. A fragile victim does not trigger compassion, nor does vulnerability engage the screeching brakes of moral conscience. This is a reversal of what we assume to be humankind’s natural response to suffering." (link: Characterological Predispositions & Conscience)

    When I read research suggesting narcissist's opposite reaction to someone's vulnerability, all the pieces fell together. In my personal relationship, being vulnerable, willing and humble, INCREASED the N's animosity and vengeance. Seriously! It did!

    for most people in normal relationship, vulnerability, willingness and humility FOSTER communication and intimacy. These qualities encourage reciprocity, caregiving, connection. This is how normal relationships work and so we expect narcissists to behave the same way and they do not.

    This is one reason why writing on blogs or forums is an act of courage because our vulnerability and insecurity is met with aggression! It may not make sense to you and it will set you back at first. But you cannot silence yourself to stop the pain because silence comes at a great price too.

    So I say, "Poop on 'em" those ridiculously arrogant and spiteful narcissists who kick people when they're down. What cowards. What BULLIES, ya know? What kind of person takes pot shots at unarmed people? O yea...narcissists.


    Hugs,
    CZ

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  11. This is an awesome post! Thank-you. I've read it several times and can only say, I learned this the hard way. I've aplogized to narcissists for raising my voice when they (metaphorically) jammed a knife in my heart. I said "sorry" for crying-out in pain... but did the narcissists ever apologize for jamming that knife in me? Hell no! Our apologies only make their sordid victories of abuse that much sweeter. No horns or pitchforks needed indeed.

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  12. You are right about our apologies sweetening their sordid victories. The first time I apologized to a narcissist expecting her to respond in kind, I was greeted with a smirk and self-righteous grin---the likes of which make you wanna slap 'em but you don't of course because you are a lady but mostly you don't do it because you know they can slap harder than you and they're willing to do it.

    It took me awhile to catch on to what was happening, so out of the ordinary it was. If other people have been confused by the same behavior, I hope my explanation will help them avoid additional confusion and pain.

    Apologize if you must but don't be confused when the narcissist doesn't reciprocate. And don't be surprised when your apology is used against you, to prove you are deserving of their insults, rejection and punishment.

    This is very confusing stuff for the average person to contend with. People do not realize how crazy-making the narcissistic relationship can be!


    Hugs,
    CZ

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  13. You said a mouthful, CZ!

    I am still reeling from this 'news' that vulnerability makes for more aggression in a narcissist. One of the worst pieces of human tissue I ever came across was a sadist: a supreme narcissist, and he demanded submission and denial of self: I thought for a while that this would make me be able to fly under his radar, but it made him just more...unbearable. You know who I am talking about, CZ. When I stood up on my hind legs, he was even worse, if possible, but there was no 'winning' here in any case: I was seen as 'subhuman' by this ratbazard. And this is what I belive strongly how narcissists (and my experience with a family member brings this full around)see others:

    As prey for their mauling. Their wiring is so twisted that a mewing kitten would not spark any compassion.

    I will read this post you recommend later, am trying to get my little head around this latest research news about their reaction to weakness, vulnerability, etc.

    This news is truly amazing....at least it gives credibility to what we have suffered from the hands and mouth of a narcissist. Truly crazy making.

    You are soooo right about silence brings its own measure of pain. The only way I see is to cut out any narcissist in your life that you can. I have a mother who is all the above, and though she is 91, they seem to be able to maintain the same amount of venom and energy even at this advanced age. The only solution for me,...to take myself out of the line of fire was to go totally 'no contact'. It saved my sanity, and probably my life...what remains of it at 64.

    Truly people don't know or undertand how crazy-making any contact with a narcissist makes possible. You have to spend a lot of time (and money in therapy) to come to some real understanding and then you are fighting an uphill battle with common people who don't have any real knowledge of this terrible dyfunction.

    Thank you, CZ, for these articles...for your hard work and writing to bring a bit of the public to some understanding.

    Lady Nyo

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  14. Thank you for validating my stores and articles, my sense of humor. :-)

    There is a research article or two in the 'pathology library' on the forum (WebofNarcissism.com) if you want to run a search. If I remember to do that later this evening, I'll post a link for you. I remember how clarifying it was for me because the narcissist's reaction to 'vulnerability' is exactly the opposite of most people's reactions!

    When someone is vulnerable (crying, shocked, etc.) we become MORE compassionate and sympathetic. That's how we get hurt by narcissists becasue we ASSUME that by telling them how we are feeling, that they will understand us better. Or back off.

    Wrong.

    If I can't find a post on my blog here, I'll get one written because this is very important for people to understand!

    Hugs,
    CZ

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  15. Oh my goodness CZ, Huntherdan pushed me down our steps and I dislocated my knee when I screamed at him for ruining my home by having sex in it with his affair partner. My knee is a mess and that was 7 years ago. It is unstable now. I fell a couple of months ago, wearing comfortable, but extremely deadly, Crocs and I had asphalt in it. I walked a whole bunch last weekend and I have been in great discomfort since. My husband picked up a sweeper and slammed it into my arm when the knee injury didn't shut me up. This note doesn't even begin to describe the physical abuse by my very own narcissist. I stayed with him until May 8, 2011 when I kicked him out for good.

    I always drop my jaw when concentrating on peeling potatoes or something precise and Huntherdan would snap my jaw shut, resulting in much dental work in the form of repairing cracked teeth and my dentist even asked if it was husband doing it. I said no out of shame for him and for me for putting up with it.

    How about the honeymoon phase? My husband slapped me across the face and jerked my ponytail snapping my neck violently. Why was he justified in doing that? I didn't want to be baptised as an adult. I never have. So I stayed for another 31 years after that lesson.

    I am definitely divorcing a narcissist and he will do anything to destroy me. I know my post has nothing to do with following your extremely enlightening blog entry, but I had to share.

    This week a cat ran out in front of my car. My husband always hit me if I were to swerve and so
    I have been taught well. But I slam on my brakes. And someone else hit the cat. And i started crying my eyes out and a police officer passed me and he helped with the crying kitty, and I cried so hard for all the animals that have suffered at his hands. Huntherdan hates cats as much as he hates me and he would always try to hit any passing cat. He shot them with bows, and he even landed in the news one year as the police were looking for the killer of a cat found with an arrow in it. My husband had instructed our 14 year old son to kill the cat after it walked on his truck. I found out this week that our then elderly neighbours confronted Huntherdan, but he denied it. Our son will be 31. Those are the memories my son has.

    In any event, I didn't understand until now that it was always hopeless. Being Huntherdan's wife that is. I am glad we are scorching the earth. We will never be at any of our daughters' weddings together, funerals, nothing. Ever. Forgiveness for him, yes, but togetherness, never, ever, ever.

    I cried so hard for the poor crying cat that the officer got a vet there in 10 minutes. I am still crying about it. Everyone was so kind to the sobbing middle aged woman and I could tell they wanted to all hug me. I cried harder. Because there are good people in the world. The cat did die, mercifully.

    I feel like the character in Deliverance. When at the end of the movie they are eating dinner like normal human beings. The man sits down and someone passes him the peas and the potatoes and he breaks down. I feel like breaking down all the time by the kindnesses I am shown daily and the connections I have with people and all the love I once took for granted.

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    Replies
    1. Dear Huntherdan,

      Your post has me sobbing. Big, sad, real tears for all the pain and suffering inflicted on those who love. And love deeply.

      Bless you, dear good woman for the indignities you have suffered and your children have suffered at the hands of an unrepentant, remorseless, prideful narcissist.

      Love,
      CZ

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