Ever since women opened forbidden doors on Father Abuse and Patriarchy, it's been okay to talk about Dad and his selfishness, his entitled misuse of power and control. I remember the 1970's when the truth of the nuclear family was exposed. Talk shows like Phil Donahue encouraged victims to stop protecting male abusers and reclaim their lives by restoring their power.
Speaking up does that. Speaking up breaks the silence, eroding illegitimate power over vulnerable people, especially children.
We've unpacked the patriarchal system emphasizing narcissistic values like control, self-reliance, and independence; while, at the same time, limiting appreciation for non-narcissistic values like compassion, empathy, connectivity. We have educated one another about family systems, the legacy of fathers abusing children and partners. We've been doing this for four decades. At this point, when someone says they hate their father, it doesn't shock me the way it did in the seventies. Back then, talking smack about Dad was taboo! Those of you who are older might remember the secrecy, the whispering of the word "abuse". You might also remember the public reprisals for anyone describing the Father who did NOT know best. And now, we have Homer Simpson. Our work is done. Patriarchy will never be the same. *wink*
In 2012, we are opening doors once again only this time, we are breaking the code of silence about narcissistic mothers. If history repeats itself, people will resist criticizing mothers. They will silence those who dare broach the topic. It is the same resistance society had to people talking about abusive fathering. I remember it well. Defining the narcissistic mother will be even trickier. It will frighten people, anger people, it will make people feel like pariahs for daring say their mother was or is a narcissist. Whistle blowers have never had an easy time opening the door on taboo topics. And what is the first thing people do when they are afraid? They shush the people knocking on their door of I-don't-wanna-know-that-denial. People whose stories trigger forbidden feelings they'd rather not experience within themselves. They blame the victim. But you can't keep a lid on secrets without making everyone sick---we must allow fresh air to heal old wounds. Then we can stop protecting motherhood from further scrutiny through the use of platitudes, illusions, denial, and preposterous sacrilization. Blech!
A friend wrote to me: "One memory that stands out about my mother is her telling the dentist not to use novacaine. I remember as a child feeling sick with terror every time I had to see the dentist. Finally one time I passed out in the chair and the dentist started giving me novacaine after that."
When someone writes about their mother, the narcissist, it triggers people's resistance. But maybe the ones who resist truth are the one's who most need to hear our story. Turning our attention to Narcissistic Mothers is important. Just like it was for those of us who flung wide the door to Patriarchy.
"A narcissistic mother is such a heartbreak. She never asked me if I was tired or how things were for me. She 'favouritises'. One morning she slopped her breakfast all over her bed and I just sat down and cried. I asked why none of my sisters would help and she said '"they are busy people - they have their own lives to get on with." I asked her if she thought I had no life and she said, "I need you here because I am sick." That was the only thought that she had - her neediness. And I felt so sad - because I knew that it was my own neediness that was keeping me chained there."
There is no Universal Law about what anyone must do if their parents are narcissistic. It depends on the parent's degree of pathology and your emotional resiliency (the ability to sustain inevitable insults to one's integrity and self-worth). This isn't to say anyone is stronger or better than anyone else if they choose to END or MAINTAIN contact with a narcissistic parent. Even though there are similar dynamics, each relationship is unique and complex! What one person might need to do is not a prescription for anyone else.
Remember: The Law of No Contact is NOT a commandment. If you are still being physically or sexually abused by a narcissistic parent, you need to enforce No Contact and seek therapeutic intervention. For other people who's lives are not in immediate danger, there's a broad continuum of dysfunction. Some people will be able to change dysfunctional patterns without severing contact. There are however, extremely abusive mothers whose children take two steps forward and get knocked back ten or more by narcissistic parents. Eventually, despite their determination, children feel helpless, hopeless, and inert which carries into adulthood. They give up on themselves rather than giving up on the narcissistic parent.
I do not make judgments and avoid projecting my situation onto others. I hope other people will do likewise and listen to those who are breaking free without telling them what to do, or worse: chastise them with Biblical scriptures about honoring parents who can't love their children.
"All my life I have longed for her to like me, to respect me as much as my sisters but she never did. She has always hinted that she thought my morals were loose and has often called me a whore. This is so untrue - I never slept with a man until I was in my thirties and live a celibate life now. My pattern was there to fall easily into a romantic relationship with a narcissistic man who only ever wanted my resources."
Sadly, there are relationships requiring No Contact. People will feel divided within themselves for taking such extreme action. The narcissistic parent will intensify control, manipulate emotions, and deny their children's natural desire to love and be loved. Narcissistic mothers, just like narcissist fathers, threaten punishment, rejection, and even abandonment of the children they own but cannot love. Your disengagement, in any form of separation, will be perceived as a threat her superiority, her status as a mother. You are betraying her code of silence and shattering her image. This will be difficult for you to tolerate. The guilt is crippling.
The narcissistic mother is just as incapable of change as the chauvinistic patriarchs of the 1970's. Look for a good therapist you can trust and consider joining support groups of experienced people reinforcing good will and compassion as natural human qualities. Making healthy connections with compassionate people can make or break your recovery.
Hugs,
CZ
Excellent post. Recognizing that not everyone has a wonderful mother is the first step of listening to their story. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteHello Ruth! I'm so glad you posted a comment!
DeleteSociety would be healthier if we'd talk less and listen more. I make an effort to live by that principle. (Though that might be hard to believe because of the long-winded posts on my blog. ha!)
I started reading narcissism blogs and websites in 2002. The past year or so, people have started talking about Narcissistic Mothers/WomeN more than I recall them having done ten years ago. That's what inspired my post yesterday...blogs like yours and many others who write about narcissistic (abusive) mothers.
I really appreciate your validation. It means a lot to me.
Hugs,
CZ
This is an important post. How right you are that the deconstruction of patriarchy has allowed
ReplyDeletepeople to talk about paternal damage. But the corollary to fathers who think they are masters of the universe (and if not in public, then when they get home), are mothers who exercise their thwarted sense of specialness by tyrannizing the emotional lives of their children. Otherwise intelligent siblings will go deaf, dumb and blind at the trespasses a narcissistic mother makes against her target of choice. My own mother has been projecting her self-dislike onto me since I was a teenager. She claimed that something "switched on" in me when I was a teenager, and that she "kept waiting" for me to "outgrow it, but you never did." What switched on was my critical intelligence and sense of being a separate and valid self. Never did "outgrow" that, despite all her efforts to stonewall it out of me. She has had "kind stretches" but she always reverts to her envious and passive aggressive spitefulness whenever she feels I outshine her (which has been most of my adult life). My sisters have been enablers for years; unfortunately, my beloved baby sister has gone beyond enabling and is now a complete co-dependant, who gets her identity from being "the loving daughter," the "Golden Child." This is sad to watch, but I've had to step back from the crazy. Both my parents are narcissists. My father is the classic grandiose type--not malignant, just unbelievably self-centered. My mother is more insidious--the "thwarted" kind of narcissist, who believes she's too special to need higher degrees or credentials (those are for suckers), who thinks every idea she's had is original (not), who pays lots of her own money to self-publish derivative self-help pablum in which she pretends to be an "expert" on "intimacy," or family communication. My sisters let her get away with telling outright lies in her books and no one calls her on it. I only did when she trespassed on my personal and professional boundaries by taking sensitive things I'd said to her in conversation, and things I'd written in my published work, and passed them off as her own ideas and coinages without giving me any acknowledgement. Now she, and my sisters, are "blaming the victim." They've made me the problem for pointing out that she's done these things.
The Golden Calf of Motherhood is a pernicious idol in this country. I've learned this firsthand.
Oooo dear...what a no-no! You actually became your OWN person? You didn't reflect what mommy dearest needed you to mirror for her? *wink*
DeleteYour mother sounds like a textbook narcissist which says everything about the difficulty you had growing up under the squint of her malevolent eye. It's tragic reading about narcissistic families but when the narcissist is the mother, it's even worse for some reason.
I don't like writing that because I am sick of mothers being blamed for all that ails society; however, perhaps we are psychologically savvy enough in 2012 to admit women have personality disorders, too.
(My concern is that women will be demonized more than men, all things not being equal politically).
This is why I've hesitated writing about narcissistic mothers. One Nasty N-mother "falsely accuses" other mothers who may be reacting to abusive relationships. We'll just have to get savvier on the distinctions of the Narcissistic mother.
One distinction is that narcissistic mothers PIT their children against each another which is a cruel and sadistic thing to do because siblings help each other survive the N-family. I'm sorry that you and your sisters are alienated from each other---but it's only to be expected with N-mothers.
Hugs,
CZ
I agree with you CZ about the stereotypical "blame the mother," Manchurian Candidate stuff. The problem is that there are genuinely narcissistic and damaging mothers out there, who now get to hide under the label "good enough" mothering. My own NM, like so many narcissists who use self-help to defend and justify themselves, seized on this idea (not understanding what it actually means, never having actually read any Winnicott), to dismiss anything I ever said to her. The problem according to her is that she was a Good Enough mother, but it somehow just wasn't "good enough" for me. I become the problem due to excessive needs, etc. I told her once that "good enough" would have been plenty good enough for me--I'd have leapt at it. Honestly, it's important to puncture the fetishizing of the maternal. Especially women of an earlier generation, who were subject to the limitations of patriarchy, and now resent their own daughters, who are able to realize themselves more fully. My NM projects onto me because I've become what she always thought she could've and should have been. The block, for her, wasn't child-rearing--she got that done early in her life. It was that she always felt she was too special to have to really work at anything--that her "innate" gifts should get her recognition, without her needing credentials, disciplined years of hard work, etc.
DeleteI'm so glad you pointed that out, Anon! Narcissists will 'use' anything to excuse their failings, weaknesses, or mistakes. I can easily imagine your narcissistic mother saying she was "Good Enough."
DeleteWhat sickens me about this is that other mothers, the more neurotic ones who feel responsible for world peace, are grouped in the same category. An idea like 'the good enough mother' was meant for conscientious moms, not narcissists. But trust narcissists to assume it applies to them, too.
Another important point in your comment is about Older Women who envy their daughter's opportunities. That would be a narcissistic reaction.
For older mothers who are part of a long chain of oppression, we are THRILLED our daughters have more opportunities than we. It gives our life meaning.
Hugs,
CZ
My mother was disowned by her parents, who proclaimed her dead to them because she remarried outside their faith. She has for years been setting up a repetition-compulsion with me, maneuvering me into a position in which she could be the one to disown her "bad daughter." It's a classic repetition-compulsion, but no one in the family except me will see it. Her second husband turned out to be an alcoholic. Nice man, but I was the first one in the family to actually say out loud that he was an alcoholic. Years later, my mother was in the process of divorcing him because of his alcoholism, and had moved out of their house, when he died in an accident. She subsequently re-wrote history (literally, in a self-help book) to a version in which she was "away on a business trip" when he died, and she got to be the grieving widow. No mention in the book of his alcoholism, or the fact (FACT) that they were divorcing. She inherited his money. Now, she is disinheriting me, using the this new projection: "you loathed ----, a man I loved, because he was an alcoholic." It's pointless to assert that she was the one who was divorcing him for his alcoholism, not me; this is such an obvious projection. She gets to shame-dump her own self-loathing--the fact that she inherited money from a man she was divorcing--onto me, and she becomes the one who had perfect love for him and me, the one who 'loathed' him. All I did was point out the obvious--that he was an alcoholic. But now, she can do the splitting--dump her own guilt onto me--purge herself and purify her own revision of her life with him, then disinherit me as a way to flush her own guilt away. She actually had to fight his sons to get his money. None of this is ever discussed in my family. Everyone keeps up the pretense, and lets me be the scapegoat. It's so obvious that it would be funny, if she weren't trying to pass herself off as an expert on creating positive intergenerational legacies. Her cognitive dissonance, pathological dishonesty and utter shamelessness, and the enabling of other family members, is breathtaking.
ReplyDeleteHi Anon,
DeleteI believe this is a continuation of the prior message? If not, I apologize for my assumption.
TruthTellers, which it sounds like you are, get themselves in trouble all the time; but especially in the narcissistic family. The N-family is based on Image--on Lies---on Illusions. So what happens when a kid comes along like yourself and starts poking bubbles in the pretense?
Well, you don't get lots of presents, that's for sure. You might not even get dinner.
You must have been studying narcissism for awhile since you've accurately described the 'shame dumping' and family 'scapegoats'. Good for you! The smartest thing we can do is to learn enough about the narcissistic personality to stop blaming ourselves or trying to bond with the narcissist.
What a story about your mother starting divorce proceedings and then FIGHTING her husbaNd's children to steal their inheritance from them---when in fact, SHE was in the process of DIVORCING him!! It must have made you want to vomit...all over her.
It is lousy to be the scapegoat, no doubt. It's no prize being the Golden Child either though. At least you have a chance to know yourself and be yourself. The Golden Child, so hungry for mother's validation, may never develop a true self of her own. Depending on what a snot your sister is, that last sentence might give you some satisfaction. ha!
You have a compelling story, anon. Do you blog? I'd love to read more about your life if you have a website.
Hugs,
CZ
Dear CZ,
ReplyDeletethanks so much for your kind reply. I've been studying psychology and narcissism for many years, having begun to understand family dynamics nearly thirty years ago during several years of therapy. I think I first read Alice Miller's Drama of the Gifted Child nearly that long ago, and it turned on the early light switches. But it's taken me nearly this long to fully BELIEVE emotionally what I cognitively know. I gave my NM many second chances; each betrayal seemed to outdo the previous one; yet, I expended thousands of words trying to explain, reason, reckon with her, trying to understand, trying to be "fair." For decades I thought NM would understand me if I just could find the right words. Then I just thought she was either stupid, or evil. I now know she is just a garden variety narcissist, who becomes malignant with me because she feels "lesser" somehow (and she never stops comparing). It's remarkable how consistent they are over decades, as if they were frozen emotionally in all their reactions. She's an adept phony; emotions are performative (thought she had HPD for awhile), while she hangs back to gage her impact. She actually said to me in a letter recently, "Some therapist told you you were abused as a child," as a way to dismiss what I said about her very recent trespasses on my boundaries. "Some therapist" never told me anything. Creepy. Your website and blog is one of the best written and most useful. Please keep blogging, as you are a lifeline to many people!
ps she didn't 'steal' the inheritance from her late husband's sons, but she did fight them over a substantial portion of it. She now has no contact with them.
The general public (or 'civilians' in message board lingo), are unaware of the tremendous time children spend:
DeletePaying attention to narcissistic parents
Listening to and caring for narcissistic parents
Forgiving, forgetting, forgiving narcissistic parents
Trying to understand narcissistic parents
Changing behaviors, questioning reality, blaming themselves
People really do not 'get' that by the time someone is writing about narcissistic parents on the Internet, they have spent their ENTIRE life trying to forge a loving bond with that parent. They've spent plenty of time in therapist's offices too only they don't realize they were there because of their narcissistic family.
Most people say they thought 'they' were the problem. Not theor perfect family!
It's really validating to know that my blog and website are helping you deal with narcissists. I keep thinking there's nothing left to say and then BOOM! I can't stop typing. ha!
Thank YOU for reading and commenting!
Hugs,
CZ
Narcissistic mothers do not belong to the human race, but they need to be at the centre of it. My own NM, Queen Crocodile, has spent her entire life holding our entire family to ransom. Everyone she encounters is a potential target, they will unwittingly be a pawn on her strange gameboard, where there is one high exalted queen and lots and lots of pawns. If you don't play the game you are off the board, ostracised, ridiculed, but never forgotten.
ReplyDeleteQueen Crocodiles will have enablers, cowards who honk like donkeys at her put downs and ridicules, she will have flying monkeys who do her dirty work and parrot claims as truth. But they are still all pawns.
She will have access to the insides of their heads and they will plead and demand that you open yours so she can have a poke around.
If you refuse you will be labelled, unfeeling , ungrateful, too proud and cocksure, a difficult child who never grew up.
They will never ever give up. Queen Crocodiles can never be human.
Dave, your metaphors are true ones. But I think the problem is less that they aren't human and more that they view their offspring as something psychologists call "partial self-objects," as extensions of themselves. As "parts" of them, we're not allowed to outshine or outgrow them; to have our own histories, to complain when they fail to recognize our boundaries. For them it's as if their hand, or leg, or spleen, wanted to do it's own thing, apart from them. We're all just self-objects to narcissists, part of their narcissistic supply. When we don't fill their gaping inner holes, we become the enemies. What's tragic is that they have never really been there for us, as their children. If we don't work hard to understand, children of narcissistic parents perpetuate the cycle. My NM certainly has. She doesn't find it odd that of her three daughters, two decided to have no children. She sees no connection. Of course, her youngest is now parenting the parents, emotionally, and has internalized the parental superego. For the last two years, whenever I say anything critical of our parents, she literally ventriloquizes my mother: "sometimes I think you care more about being right than about the relationship," she says, not realizing the logical flaw here: if I am right, then there really is no relationship! The only way to "have the relationship" is to be right about the awful behavior but be quiet about it and act as if I were wrong. That's how they make you crazy with their twisted logic! Unfortunately, all too human. It's important to see narcissists as human. Otherwise you give them even more power over you.
DeleteHi Dave,
DeleteQueen Crocodile, eh? Your mother sounds very passive-aggressive. Passive-aggressives are the scariest of narcissists because they've camouflaged their appearance.
People assume they're sweetness and light because they do their dirty work behind the scenes. Nobody knows how mean they can be unless they've been invited into the sanctuary of intimates.
Women seem to be particularly susceptible to developing Covert Narcissism because overt arrogance and grandiosity aren't encouraged in women. Their narcissism goes underground and that can be the ultimate in crazy-making! What you see is NOT what you get!
Hugs,
CZ
Thank you for this post. Funny how you seem to speak about what I need to hear just when I really need it. A few months ago I started a no contact relationship with both of my parents. No matter how I tried to establish boundaries, it wasn’t working. I do feel guilty. I have a one year old and people are on my case because they don’t see her. I left my partner of 7 years just after my daughter was born. It turned out that having a NM wasn’t enough; I wanted a narcissistic husband too. He is completely out of the picture and it can be hard being the sole caretaker. My brother is always saying I should move in with the parents, that I should let them watch her, that I should be talking to them. No, I shouldn’t be. I need to get back on my own feet and heal first and then in the future if they can respect boundaries, great, maybe I’ll consider it. But I am finding the longer I do my work and the stronger I become on my own the more isolated I become from my family and family friends. It’s a package deal. I wasn’t aware of this. I have been told by relatives that they love me and want me in their life, BUT I need to understand.. or I should think about my mother. I guess they only want me in their life if I drop my self work and bend to my parents’ wishes. Even friends who happen to know my mom are on me about my poor mom and how she doesn’t see her grandchild. It’s a difficult time. I am emotionally healthier than I have ever been, but I am almost completely isolated at this point. It’s painful and I am considering picking up and moving out of state. Maybe my fresh start should be somewhere new where I am just me, not my mother’s daughter. Has anyone else had this experience?
ReplyDeleteDear anonymous,
DeleteNo Contact is a new approach to an old problem. We didn't have concepts like that twenty years ago. Most people 'drifted' away, finding jobs elsewhere. That is an easier solution maybe. It's the one I used. We moved away to other states, eventually living in France for several years. It was just enough distance for me to "find myself" and really get to know what I believed.
Unless you're a carbon copy of your narcissistic parents, they won't appreciate your individuation. Being your own self is a threat and it's really hard to stand firm on who you are and what you want when parents threat rejection. All these years later, one of the best things I ever did was to move away, strengthen myself, and THEN move back.
If your mother has taken over your life in the past, she'll do double-time now that you have a child. It's very tough to deal with the narcissistic mother's constant criticism of your parenting. Very tough...maybe even harder than scrimping for money. At least you can complain about your lack of funds.
Can you make it on your own financially?
Hugs,
CZ
It IS a very isolating experience initially, Little One and yes, it IS a "Package Deal." Hanging on to your truth in the face of overwhelming opposition is a real test of your burgeoning sense of self and your reality. You KNOW what you KNOW: BELIEVE YOURSELF. Despite what you've been led to believe since your birth you are far more competent, capable and resourceful than you are even aware of at this point in your journey. The decision to move or stay involves so many, many variables. I personally put as much physical distance between me and my MNmother as possible; however, she stalked me/my family/my friends and by proxy (PIs) for the next 18 yrs. post NC until her death to this world. She was very affluent, and money can buy any "service," I'm sorry to say. I told her very directly, "I am NOT for sale to ANYONE for ANY price and that includes YOU." I'd rather deal with the intermittent 'out-breaks' of crazy than 'full time' crazy. But that's me, not you. Yes, I WAS able to establish an identity separate and apart from her through "The Geographical Cure." It took time but I developed a support system, friends and actually met my late DH here in The Tundra. I would not change the last 30 yrs. of my life for anything. I had a very realistic view of what my life would have been had I stayed where I was and it was NOT acceptable. At one point, things were so desperate I had a choice essentially of being out on the streets or going back to live with MNmother (which is EXACTLY what she wanted.) I took my chances on the street and started out with 2 20 gal. garbage bags with what ever I could grab. I couldn't have told you exactly what I wanted, but I was damn sure of what I didn't want and that specter kept me moving as far away as possible from where I was born and raised, as far away from her as possible.
ReplyDeleteMy sense is the more emotionally healthy we become, the less likely we are to entertain those who would prefer we NOT be, and they resist with a huge "R"/ backlash at our attempts to free ourselves from their Legacy. IMO, the people who truly love us truly love us UNCONDITIONALLY. Having a parent/mother like this ensures we wouldn't know what that meant if it slapped us upside the head: No matter how hard we tried to be "perfect", no matter how frantic our attempts to secure their love, approval, acceptance etc. we always fell short somehow. And that is NOT because WE were lacking but rather because they were incapable. And that's on THEM, not us.
You don't have to make any decisions right now. But the fact you're entertaining options says you're keeping an open mind-always a good thing, IMO. It seems to me so much of life is not necessarily knowing what we want, so much as what we don't want. Assess your future as you see it where you are now. As you gain in strength, "Get back on your feet" as you said, you'll know what's best for you. Look at how far you've already come......and there's lots more adventures to come. Promise!
TW
What a lovely and reassuring reply, Tundra.
DeleteThe Geographical Cure?!! HA! That's my kind of medicine. Move to a foreign country. Unfortunately, I was married to the maN who would later become my X, urging me to open Pandora's Box on narcissism all sorts.
"No matter how hard we tried to be "perfect", no matter how frantic our attempts to secure their love, approval, acceptance etc. we always fell short somehow. And that is NOT because WE were lacking but rather because they were incapable. And that's on THEM, not us."
This is soooooooooo true. It's true with narcissistic parents, family members, employers, or friends...it's true of all narcissists. No matter how hard you try to please them, you never will. It's a defining characteristic.
Hugs,
CZ
Wow! This is what I wanted to hear Tundra Woman. Although its been tough starting my emotion work- things are better on most days already. Its the judges in my head telling me to be scared or to not at least try something new. Thank you for sharing your story... :) and advice. Its defraying to hear. On hard days I think it wont get any better - hope can be a rare thing
DeleteHi Tundra
ReplyDeleteDistance and unavailability, is almost a complete cure. Unfortunately memories never allow complater release. What does help are sites and blogs like this, so thank you CZ, you're actually a friend I didn't realise I had.
My partner and her parents are also supportive, but not for me, I don't need it. It's because they love our daughter who's now a smart,happy, giggly 17 year old.
You can guess that Narc Gran now labels her grandaughter as overprotected, distant and not very forthcoming, even though she's very chatty.
But we refuse to allow abuse by a 3rd party. Is that bad?
Overprotected? *groan* That's a typical criticism narcissists make if we're GOOD parents and taking GOOD care of our kids. They have to somehow find a way to criticize anything we do that's good and honorable and worthy.
DeleteOverprotective!!
One narcissist I knew said that his wife was overprotective because she padded the sharp corners of the coffee table when her toddler was learning to walk.
"Let him get hurt," he said, "That's how he'll learn."
Seriously. Isn't that demented??!!
It's lovely to read that your daughter is a smart, happy, and giggly 17-year old in spite of her grandmother's meddling. You've done well, Dave.
Hugs,
CZ
Hi Tundra, Dave, CZ.
ReplyDeleteRe: voices in the head, the internal narratives are the toughest to defuse. Freud talked about this as the Superego; but object-relations psychology calls them "parental introjects." I agree with this, they get 'installed' by our families. Narcissistic parents police the introjects, and can feel, almost unconsciously, when your introjects are fading, weakening, slipping, and they'll double down to reimplement them. Think of the introjects as the ego avatars of your NPs. They are an artificial program that's been installed on your hard drive. But you can remove them. It's very hard, there will always be traces that pop back up throughout your life. But if you can realize that they are projections, that you have been expected to internalize, it's easy to go about extracting them. I saw something somewhere, on this blog or another one, about someone deciding that real estate in her head was too expensive to let her narcissistic parents/enabling siblings 'squat' there for free. Evict them. YOur subjectivity and mental emotional life belongs entirely to you. BELIEVE that in your soul, and you get those voices out. I haven't gotten there entirely but I get closer every year (after nearly three decades.
"Think of the introjects as the ego avatars of your NPs"
DeleteThat is brilliant! Wow...what an insightful description of parental introjects. Thank you!
Hugs,
CZ
Just trying to keep up with the quality of what you have been writing for years
Deleteon this blog, CZ!
Oh Dave, NO! How could ensuring The Legacy is NOT perpetuated be a "Bad" thing? These "grandparents" DON'T get a "Do Over" in my book: Your kids will be treated as "Props" at best to the PD "Grandparents." If we weren't safe with them growing up, how will our kids possibly be? It is that "Enduring pattern of behavior as characterized by..."(DSM) that essentially guarantees sooner or later our kids will be subject to the SAME stuff we were if our PDparent(s) are allowed unsupervised, regular access to them. Narcs IMO are essentially Predatory in nature. Who is more vulnerable than a child?
ReplyDeleteI think one of the most challenging aspects for ACs to truly embrace is the static/unchanging nature of PDs in that it IS characterlogical, it IS who they ARE. Hope DOES "Spring Eternal" and it is so very, very difficult to let go of ours. It is a metaphorical death. That bond between parent and child is so PRIMAL, our love for our parent(s) is IMO the purest, most enduring form of love. And the PD parent destroys that love not necessarily in a single spectacular explosion but more likely in behaviors that erode our love over our lifetime of experiences with them. If the parent had been consistently nasty, we would have walked away or taken significant steps to protect ourselves long before we finally do. That parent may never have placed a hand, a whip/belt, a lit cigarette etc. on us but bruises fade, burns scar over, broken bones mend. The legacy of psychological maltreatment is the most enduring and challenging repercussion of growing up in these families. That's not to say we are "broken" or anywhere as "damaged" as others (often self-promoting, IMO) lead us to believe: That we HAVE survived, gone on to complete our educations, become gainfully employed, marry, raise our kids, contribute to our communities, have our OWN successful lives (however one wishes to define "success") speaks volumes to how residual we really ARE.
Just as we learn to never underestimate the perfidy of our Narc parent(s), never underestimate the resourcefulness and hardiness of an ACON: We're a whole lot tougher, more insightful and possess more personal integrity and honesty than even we are aware of particularly when we first embark on this journey. Life was not meant to be a "Life Sentence": We accept the painful reality of the un-yeilding nature of "what ails" our parent(s) regardless of it's DSM "dx." Call it what ever you please-"Demon Possession Disorder" or "Nasty Narc" etc. Ultimately what matters is WE change and as a result, our children and their futures change as well-The Legacy STOPS with us. When we die the only enduring vestige is OUR character and how we touched the lives of others, particularly those closest to us.
Please BELIEVE yourself. The disparity between WHO these parents SAY they are and WHAT they DO to us (often in private) is enormous. In situ, some of their stuff may not appear so horrid; however, lives/experiences are not lived in discrete entities but rather in chronologies and over-arching themes. Their behavior is the TRUTH-the rest is gaslighting, re-writing history, denial, minimizing, projection, displacement etc. and continuing attempts to "CYA" on their part while pummeling the hell out of their AC's reality. They will never TRULY own their abuse/maltreatment. And we don't need them to do so in order to move on with our lives. All of you have a lifetime of experiences to teach and guide you regarding yourself, the world and what it means to be human and live in this world. Use the "gift of experience" to it's intended advantage. The most painful experiences are those which touch our souls the most deeply: They are meant to ensure we won't get fooled-or abused-again. And we won't allow it to happen to those we care about if it is at all within the scope of our ability.
TW
It's weird, but now it's almost like the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction. Now, in psych literature and even books and movies, it's all about narcissistic mothers. I guess this is like a financial "correction." The idea of the narcissistic father was so "overvalued" that the marketplace of ideas snapped back like a rubberband. I predict something similar will happen soon to the idea of narcissistic male lovers. I read somewhere that something like 80% of codependent literature is aimed at women, and I notice an overwhelming majority of articles about narcissistic lovers online are also aimed at women dealing with narcissistic men. You would think that narcissistic female lovers are exceedingly rare, and I totally don't think that's the case. But we have many cultural reasons for not recognizing the prevalence of narcissism in women. I think that notion is due for a "correction" soon as well, and I predict we'll be seeing it more in a year or two.
ReplyDeleteTake a look at the site Shrink4men.com to see what I mean. I think it's the only site out there of its kind.
I went to the website you recommended and discovered some excellent writings about women with borderline personality disorder. BPD and NPD are often co-morbid so I plan on spending sometime reading Dr. Palatier's articles.
DeletePsychologists are usually reluctant to be so outspoken...i was a little taken aback by her verbiage, I must admit!
You wrote: "The idea of the narcissistic father was so "overvalued" that the marketplace of ideas snapped back like a rubberband. I predict something similar will happen soon to the idea of narcissistic male lovers."
Hummm...not so sure about the idea of narcissistic fathers being "overvalued". Examining male narcissism was overdue, that much is for sure. As to why fewer women are diagnosed with NPD, that's not too hard to figure out.
NPD, as defined in the DSM-IV, is based on descriptions of overt narcissism. And being overtly arrogant and self-centered are contrary to female socialization.
A female narcissist would be more likely to 'hide' her grandiosity which doesn't mean it disappears. It's still there, just not as obvious.
Covert narcissism is NOT listed in the DSM-IV; therefore, psychologists use the 'overt' description when diagnosing NPD. That means fewer women (especially in prior generations) would qualify for a NPD.
Women with pathological narcissism would be shifted to other categories such as the BPD (Borderline), histrionic, and dependent personality disorders.
While not very much has been written about narcissistic women, a great deal HAS been written about Borderline Personality Disorder of which the majority of sufferers ARE women.
There's a lot of sites discussing borderline personality--even more than NPD. Plus, more research has been done on the BPD than NPD.
This is my understanding of the statistical difference between males and females.
Hugs,
CZ
I agree with you 100%. Covert narcissism is definitely more destructive. Covert narcissism makes other folks feel crazy...even moreso than overt arrogance.
DeleteI mean seriously. Does anyone expect Donald Trump have a sensitive heart?
The cognitive dissonance is crippling when Mrs. Perfect Mother undermines her daughter's confidence, or beats her with wire hangers. (ha!) Not funny...i tend to crack jokes when feelings get intense.
Women have been told to walk in a man's shadow. I was literally taught this as a child. How about this cliche: "Behind every successful man is a good woman." In other words, SHE makes him perform!
YIKES! We had some truly gosh-awfully stupid beliefs to work through, didn't we?
I could elaborate on current advice to women encouraging wives to "re-parent" their husband if he's narcissistic. Well, this makes my eyes roll backwards and dribbles of spittle splatter on my monitor and then I can't type anymore so I'll stop now.
Hugs,
CZ
I have been reading through your blog articles. I recently discovered that there was a name for the terrible thing that is my family. I knew something was very wrong at our house as a very young child. There was physical abuse that was brought to the attention of the authorities on multiple occasions but because of their skill as liars and manipulators they were never stopped. I have family members (aunts etc) who apologize for not stepping in claiming they were afraid of my father. The more covert psychological games were the worst - my siblings were encouraged to play along and the differences between the way I was treated and the way they were treated made me feel as if there was something wrong or defective about me. They were allowed within certain limits to "be" but how dare I try to be anyone at all or have any type of interests -attempt to "be" anything or have any type of identity was grounds for immediate extermination of any self-respect or dignity I had secured.
ReplyDeleteMy father was an overt N with at least BPD and HPD. My mother has Asperger's and a very nasty case of NPD which manifests as extremely covert
I am the scapegoat. As a young teenager, I ran to get away from the insane physical and mental abuse and ended up-of course-in the arms and bed of an alcoholic N who left me with 2 kids and no financial support. This was contradictory to the image of the "wonderful christian family" I was attempting to escape from and when I had no choice but to go back the nightmare. They took great pleasure in punishing and sabotaging me-my parenting and relationship with my children-my finances-relationships and most importantly my ability to become independent of them financially. They told anyone who would listen that I was sick-emotionally disturbed and lied to get attention. They taught my siblings to openly call me "crazy".
I have for years tried to break free but I believe the very wounds they inflicted have kept me tied to them. They made me believe I was "nothing" and so far I am. I have tried so hard to get into a situation where I could have a career and healthy relationships-mainly for the purpose of going full NO CONTACT. After years of being under their thumb-of being stuck in no-win situations of their creation of being sabotaged every time I was on the brink of some type of success or step forward towards financial independence I realize that the fact I never had a safe stable place to get on my feet and the fact that No matter where I am I take with me the self-doubt and zero self-esteem they instilled. Now that I have a name for what they did and have found some info on the subject I realize I must elevate my self-esteem or I will never succeed. That is step number 1 for me. Even though I knew what they were doing was wrong I drank the Kool-aod and believed the lie and now I don;t know how to unring that bell. Because of this I have created a series of self-perpetuating events in my life that have reinforced the original lie. I have no access to health insurance or therapy so I will have to heal myself. How can I do this? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated Also I am curious if anyone has ever heard of a family doing sometimes crazy things to keep the scapegoat financially dependent-I know my situation is somewhat unique. Had I not run away and ended up with 2 kids and no support they would have not been able to keep their claws in me. Please help if you can-my misery is food for the soul of my N mother and I would like for the buffet to close.
Thank you for listening.
One last thing-I am so exhausted and depressed after years of dealing with them- I now live alone in a remote area and have no vehicle. They have me right where they want me and I feel as hopeless and powerless as I did when I was 9.(how do they always "win"?-they stacked the deck). I have no way to make a living and any relief i get is when and how much they decide. My golden child sister who used to lie to get me beaten and then watch with a cheshire cat grin on her face is now my mother's "trusted advisor" and gets the satisfaction of being able to help determine my fate. I feel like a cat toy. I really want more than anything to be free. I have posted other places and been ignored-I seem to be "invisible." Please help if you can. How do I get my strength back?
ReplyDeleteHi anonymous,
DeleteThe best advice I can offer is to join a support forum where you can foster relationships with other women. Just knowing there are people who will listen is empowering. It sounds to me like you are very isolated which only breaks us down and increases our despair.
You need to find a support group whether in cyber-space or in your community. It doesn't even need to be focused on mental health issues---any support group that connects you to other people will be beneficial.
You can check out my forum here: http://webofnarcissism.com
I have a direct link on my right sidebar, too.
The first task untangling this giant mess is to focus on what you can do NOW (today) to increase your self-confidence. That's a lifelong journey, yes, but setting priorities and then sticking to them improves our ability to trust ourselves. It sounds to me like you are in a pretty helpless state right now, not seeing any options for improvement.
Are you living alone? Have your children grown, or are they still dependent on you? How are you providing for your family if you don't have transportation?
I am willing to listen and help if I can, but you will have much broader support if you post on our message board. Let me know if you have any problems joining our group!
I will watch for your reply!
Hugs,
CZ
Thank you so much for responding-
DeleteMy children are grown -I am getting by on a few dollars here and there that I make from occasional work at home jobs I have found on craigslist-nothing steady or reliable. Most of them have been ripoffs. I get some help from my NM but as I'm sure you can imagine the cost of that help makes it unbearable to receive-she only does it because she's afraid if I actually implode her image may be tarnished and it gives her an opportunity to ascend into sainthood as she "very generously?" helps the same wayward daughter who has made things so difficult for her-plus it's really fun to play games with my life-my failures power her and my sister. It's a big win for them when i lose. She will never help in a way that will allow me to get free and be independent- Without going into detail she has gone to great lengths to keep me in this never ending maze of impossible no-win situations. The investment she pays out by "helping" me is nothing compared to the return she gets. You probably would not believe some of the things they have done to keep me here and the details don't really matter so I'll just skip that but please know it has all been total insanity and I am not some spoiled brat who never grew up. I feel ridiculous to be in this mess but grateful to have discovered that there may be others who understand what happened.
I am desperate to get away from them all. I could not feel any more trapped if I was locked away in a dungeon-actually that would be preferable because at least that is something concrete (literally and figuratively speaking)the prison where i currently am incarcerated has no visible walls or bars. It is difficult to prove that it even exists to those who do not know the truth of how I came to be here. Years of mocking and taunting about my abilities and dreams have left me wondering if I need to just resign myself to working forever at jobs I hate for no money. If that is the case I am done. That is not an option for me. I am so driven to create but unsure if my creations are worthy and this state of confusion and self- doubt has surely been the lock that secures the door of my cell. I have felt this same way since I was 7 or so. Seems I have worked really hard my whole life to be right back where I started. I think maybe in all the ways that matter,I never left this place at all.
I have created some things that I think are pretty cool and some things that I know are beautiful. I have had some outside confirmation of this. If I had the capital for tools and materials (patents for some of it)I would love to make and sell them for a living. There are those who seem to believe this is possible and sometimes I am among them-getting by and coming up with the start up money has always been the problem -when you are not making enough to pay the bills how do you do that? It has always been me working at least 2 jobs that I hate to not even make enough to get by. Nobody can ever say I have not tried and worked hard-years and years of dead-end low paying jobs and instead of spending any time or energy on a way to make a living doing the things I love I was being trapped in the ridiculous turmoil created by those who could and should have helped me succeed but instead sought to exhaust me with nonsense. It worked. It was the price for enough help to stay broke and dependent. I do not believe the world or anyone owes me a living and I am willing to do the work to get where I want to be-the frustration is in working for years with no real progress and being dependent on someone who is committed to my destruction has been a trap I have been unable to extricate myself from -it has worn me down.
ReplyDeleteI love to write but am unsure if my ability is or ever could be at a level that would sustain me financially-periodically I will work on various writing projects because if I don't i will go crazy from all the ideas knocking together in my head but the immediate need for cash to pay the bills and the lack of ability to earn what I need drags me back into a reality where I know deep down that the writing for money is a dream and dreams coming true are like wild things that always get away from me- so I never complete any of my writing projects which are mostly novels. i am never sure of what would be the most productive use of my time so I'm ashamed to say I freeze up and do nothing.Then I feel tons of guilt over my lack of productivity. I had a very original story idea-I had outlined the idea extensively and it was good-very innovative-never got to finish-making a living and jumping through impossible hoops got in the way-several years later a movie came out-different story but the same premise and it was a blockbuster-they made a sequel. That gave me some hope that my ideas were good but by the time I spend all day and night working at a job that doesn't even pay the bills I just no longer have the energy to work on these projects like I used to. Maybe I just don't have what it takes. Maybe if I had hope that it would actually be worth the effort that spark of hope that used to fire my dreams and light my way would be real again. Oh how I want that back but it was extinguished long ago-How can I rediscover the fire I need to find my way out of this darkness?
People say ridiculous things like "Money doesn't bring happiness" but all of us who have slip-slided DOWN the ladder of success, know that money does indeed BLOCK happiness when we don't have enough to meet our basic needs.
DeleteRecent information confirms my point. When you don't have enough, money is paramount. It's everything---you're in a fight for survival which means money preoccupies your mind because it's the gateway to basic essentials. Like food. And transportation (especially when you're rural).
When we do have enough money to provide for our basic needs, then money begins to lose prominence in our minds and it doesn't make us much happier (if at all). You can watch a good film about that by clicking Tom Shadyac's film, "I AM" linked on my right sidebar.
I think, and I am not a psychologist, that making decisions based on 'now' will restore your self-confidence and esteem. Its kinda easy to get stuck in Magical Thinking, imagining a bountiful future with millions of dollars coming in because we wrote a screenplay. Our society even promotes this kind of thinking which CAN (for people in desperate situations), trap us in magical fantasy land.
So, write if you're passionate about writing. Create art, if you're passionate about art. But try to avoid attaching 'Potential Income' to your creative passions. At least until you are able to keep food on your table with a reliable income.
Now how to secure 'reliable income' is the real problem you'll need to resolve. It might mean moving into a more urban environment where you won't need transportation for work.
Hugs,
CZ
Making a living through creative expression (which is what I think I was meant to do)is usually something one has to work into and to do so it helps to have at least some level of financial stability and some belief that you can actually achieve your goals. Even though consciously I know the things they did were insane and that they were wrong about me I still expect the worst and struggle with self-belief. I knew as a young girl that I was doomed and that has never changed.I still feel powerless and that all the things I want and need are unattainable -not for others- but for me. i think everything they have done and said all these years is ridiculous-would I go to a mental institution to get advice??? but it is one thing to know it intellectually -another entirely to feel the truth of it in your heart. I think if I could just get a whiff of real success and something to look forward to I could take off and fly but I was conditioned to expect the worst so that is what I get.
ReplyDeleteI still look and usually feel very young so that is one thing I have in my favor! People rarely guess that I am out of my twenties and that can be an advantage-I have sometimes wondered if I never aged because somewhere some great supreme being saw the all the bad things that had broken me and decided to give me a break that would help instead-maybe so I could take advantage of some kind of cosmic life do-over. Might sound crazy but I have hoped so much that it could be true.
The other good thing is I live with an amazing dog- a rottweiler that I have raised from the age of 7 weeks. He is 8 yrs old now and the joy of my life -so sweet and loving and I am so grateful to be able to have him. I got him when I was working as a dancer and had a few (too brief) years of prosperity. He is what gets me out of bed every day.
I will join the forum. I hope I will find understanding there and practical advice that will help me pull myself up out of this hole. You have given me some things to think about. You are right about not seeing much hope and I think the fact that I have some great projects going but feel powerless to move them forward makes it all the more frustrating. Depression sucks!!!I agree wholeheartedly that I have to start changing what I believe about myself from the inside before my external conditions will change but I don't know how to do that - The foundation of myself is built on quicksand which is why I believe I have failed in the past. To be clear-I have never had a creative project rejected because I have never been had the confidence to promote them- my failures have been with just the basics of survival- making a living and building good relationships-I attract N's so I mostly just try to stay away from people. What types of things can a person do on their own to build esteem or confidence? Can you be specific? Also I don't know what to do with all of the anger I have for these psychos and what they have done-How can they just get away with it???? they have broken multiple laws. I want so badly to expose them and to see them held accountable but I know the possibilities of that actually happening are slim and my energies are better spent on getting up and away.
This has been way too many words to say that I am hoping to find detailedinformation that i can use to build self-esteem and get some authentic self-belief going and try to turn this depression frustration and anger into fuel. Is there a way to do this from where I am now?
So Sorry for rambling on -Thank You again for listening.
Most of the people on our forum are dealing with financial issues, too. Especially if they divorced and had been stay-at-home-parents. Like myself. ;-(
DeleteUsually when we stumble on information about narcissism, we're flooded with memories that had been filed under "What-the-Hell?" Now we can put words to our experiences which is a good first step towards self-empowerment. When you can't explain why your relationships were unhappy, you can't really start tackling the problem. You're left in self-doubt and confusion.
SO, understanding the differences between "normal" and pathological or dysfunctional relationships increases your self-confidence. Now you aren't as vulnerable to being manipulated and abused because you understand manipulation and abuse.
What's most important in restoring your self-esteem is knowing HOW to take good and loving care of yourself. That includes managing (or ending) relationships that continue to hurt you.
As far as exposing your family for hurting you:
I would not recommend it. You may feel angry now because you are learning how children are hurt by their family-of-origin. This anger is meant to propel your feet towards action---taking care of yourself.
This anger may lead to darker places though---seeking revenge and punishment. So be careful about your motives. Most of the time, but not always and this is entirely up to you, we are FAR better served to focus on ourselves and put our revenge fantasies on the shelf for awhile. That's my suggestion anyway.
Hugs,
CZ